Hi everyone, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of the We Make Books Podcast - A podcast about writing, publishing, and everything in between!

This week we’re talking about pirates and sadly, not those of the Caribbean variety.  The internet is littered with websites that sell (or claim to give away) pirated copies of books and addressing this situation can be a long and daunting process.  In this episode we talk about what kind of websites your book could end up on, what it is that the people that run them are after, and how to get your book taken down should pirates get ahold of it … this unfortunately involved a lot less of the ‘bribe them with rum’ tactic that we had hoped.

We Make Books is hosted by Rekka Jay and Kaelyn Considine; Rekka is a published author and Kaelyn is an editor and together they are going to take you through what goes into getting a book out of your head, on to paper, in to the hands of a publisher, and finally on to book store shelves.

We Make Books is a podcast for writer and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, concerns, and if you’ve been spending your days in quarantine baking, tell us what you’ve made and stay safe everyone!

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

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Rekka (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of we make books a show about writing, publishing and everything in between. I'm Rekka, I write science fiction and fantasy as RJ Theodore.

New Speaker (00:10):

And I'm Kaelyn. I am the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press.

New Speaker (00:13):

So I know I've made a big Kaelyn.

Kaelyn (00:17):

Yeah, I mean I've done that for awhile, but, uh, is there any specific reason -

Rekka (00:21):

The day that I got the Google search term alert that my book had shown up on a pirate site, that's how I knew I'd made it.

Kaelyn (00:28):

It is a, it is a little bit of a marker in your career, isn't it?

Rekka (00:32):

Bingo square. I mean, like, it's not like I'm not gonna do anything about it, but, uh, you know, before I turn around and forward that email to my publisher and say, Hey, just so you know, please go take care of this. Um, I did bask in the having arrived-ness of that moment.

Kaelyn (00:48):

Yeah. It's, um, it's, you know, what did they say? SNL, Sesame street. Those are the big markers in your career.

Rekka (00:54):

I haven't made that one yet. I haven't done any of those pirated website, so I'm not, today we're talking about pirates, but not the awesome kind, not the kind in my books, the kind to take my books.

Kaelyn (01:08):

The kinds who take books and um, you know, put them on the website for all to, to read without paying for them, which as I think we've, you know, if you've listened to any of our previous episodes, we obviously come down very strongly against.

Rekka (01:21):

We don't like it .

Kaelyn (01:29):

Yeah. Kind of against that for various reasons. This was, a listener sent us this question, you know, asking about, um, pirates pirate websites, what you can do to prevent that from happening and what to do if it does happen. So, um, no, I think that's a pretty, there's a as much of a comprehensive walkthrough

Rekka (01:38):

Yeah. I mean, yeah, the problem itself is pretty simple. It's the solution that's kind of a bear. Yeah, exactly.

Kaelyn (01:50):

So anyway, uh, take a listen and um, as always, we hope you enjoy it

Speaker 3 (02:08):

[inaudible]

Kaelyn (02:11):

Well, I think we're getting this remote recoder thing, kind of uh, we're doing okay, right?

Rekka (02:14):

Hey, we're not coughing and we have no difficulty breathing, so it's a good song. We're a step ahead of a lot of other people at this point.

Kaelyn (02:24):

So, Hey everyone, uh, welcome back. We are, um, again recording remotely.

Rekka (02:32):

We are trying to uh, batch up some episodes. It's not that hopefully in the future you will say it, but the play gold meet lasted two weeks.

Kaelyn (02:41):

First of all, if it's a plague, it doesn't last two weeks.

New Speaker (02:44):

No, no, no. I'm sure it's fine. I'm in two weeks from now, we'll all be laughing about this.

New Speaker (02:49):

Um, by definition I think plagues must last longer than to be -

New Speaker (02:54):

Fine. You know, it never argue with an editor. They've got receipts in and the sources and stuff.

Kaelyn (03:01):

Well also when I was in grad school, I was a TA for a professor who specialized in history of medicine. So I had to TA a class, God, I think like three or four times. That was the history of plague and epidemic,

Rekka (03:16):

fFine, whatever. Or you're a semi expert on the subject.

Kaelyn (03:19):

Oh God, no, not at all.

Rekka (03:21):

We'll get out there and heal some people. If you're so smart.

Kaelyn (03:22):

We'll do. Okay.

Rekka (03:26):

Um, but anyway, yes. So we were, this is another one from the batch that we recorded, um, before my second surgery. So hopefully the world is a much better place as you're listening to this.

Kaelyn (03:36):

Well, the other side of this now. Yeah, but you know what doesn't make the world a good place?

Rekka (03:42):

Piracy.

Kaelyn (03:43):

Pirates.

Rekka (03:44):

See, I really subscribed to the romantic notion of pirates. I really want them to be good hearted people at their core that just work on the outside of regulation and law yet see that occasionally have like really exciting chase scenes with the law enforcement, but everyone ends up okay,

Kaelyn (04:07):

Well here's the thing about pirates Rekka and they're not really great people. Now don't get me wrong, in the early days of piracy, there was a lot to respected, possibly even admire. There was a, they were one of the first groups to have socialized medicine.

Rekka (04:22):

Right. Who were bringing it all the way back around.

Kaelyn (04:27):

And the concept of, um, worker's comp. If you were, uh, injured aboard a pirate ship and let's say you lost a hand, you were afforded a higher percentage of recovered booty.

Rekka (04:38):

Booty.

Kaelyn (04:41):

Now, that said pirates. Definitely were very into the pillaging, raping and maiming and above all stealing.

Rekka (04:49):

Yeah.

Kaelyn (04:50):

And in our modern day, that is what pirates continue to do now. So why are we talking about pirates? Well, this one actually comes from a listener who, uh, sent us a message and asked if we had any tips or tricks to dealing with people stealing your book. Pirates, putting it online without paying for it.

Rekka (05:12):

So obviously we're specifically talking about eBooks.

Kaelyn (05:15):

We are specifically talking about eBooks. If it would be really weird if they went out and bought physical copies of your book and then sold them online at that point, that just makes them a bookstore.

Rekka (05:24):

Right? So that makes them what a second hand bookstore. But no, you're right. So it's hard. The reason that, um, ebook piracy is so much stronger than print book piracy is because yes, those print books are, um, individual items that can only be resold or given away once. Um, yes, if they buy your book and then give it away physically, they are a library. If they buy your book and sell it, they are a bookstore and we like those people. We like both of those categories -

Kaelyn (05:53):

Those are great people.

Rekka (05:54):

Yes. But yeah, it's um, ebook, they get one file and they can give it away an unlimited number of times and that's a problem. Kaelyn, why is it a problem?

Kaelyn (06:05):

It's a problem because then you're not making money off the book. Now I'm going to head on -

Rekka (06:09):

Who's not making money off the book?

Kaelyn (06:10):

Everyone who was involved in the book that should be getting money from it is now not making money off the book. Right. Um, I'm going to head off this discussion right here by saying that there are a lot of people who will say that people who are going to go online and find pirated book versions of your book would not have bought it in the first place.

Rekka (06:29):

And this isn't actually 100% true.

Kaelyn (06:32):

It's not completely wrong. But yes, there is definitely a certain crowd of people that scour these websites, which by the way, we will not be naming any of them in this episode. The scour these websites, and that is how they consume books. They only get pirated copies online. And in those cases, yes, those people probably would not have bought the book no matter what. Um, that said there is a large segment as well that could go by the book and just wants to get it online for whatever reason.

Rekka (07:04):

Or just let, let me see if it's free first and then I'll buy it. Yeah, I'm using it as part of their budgeting system for their entertainment. Um, there is an anecdote, I don't recall who it was, but someone, an author, I think self-published uploaded their own book to a pirate site and inside it had the first two or three chapters and then at the end and explanation of why pirating costs that author their livelihood and a link to their website to go buy the book. Yeah. And apparently the response on the pirate site was, wow, that sucks. This book is really good. Now I have to go buy it and finish it. And a lot of them did. But chances are you aren't controlling this situation and someone else has uploaded a listing that matches your book's title and your author name.

Kaelyn (07:58):

So let's, as Rekka is kind of pointing to, let's talk about how and why your book may end up online. How's pretty easy? Somebody gets a hold of the digital file, assuming that they are able to get a hold of the digital file, puts it online for people to download. Who are these people and why are they doing this? Well, the answer is a pirates people who are trying to make money off of, um, giving your book away. Now, I'm saying giving your book away. But a lot of times that is not actually what's happening. And that is for one of two reasons. If you find that your book is showing up on a pirate website, there's a very good chance they don't actually have your book.

New Speaker (08:39):

Right. They are, they pulled some information off Amazon. Maybe they got a couple of the preview chapters off of there. They dump it in. And what they're actually trying to do is drive traffic to their website. Um, it could be primarily ad based, you know, some create websites that are just trying to get people to go there so that they can charge for ads. Right. Um, sometimes what they're trying to do is get you to sign up for a subscription for these supposedly free pirated books. Um, some of these are paid subscriptions. In some cases they just want your email address and information because that's also a very valuable market.

Rekka (09:15):

Yeah. They can sell that and they're not selling it to people who, um, who are going to do responsible things with that information.

Kaelyn (09:22):

Yeah. Conversely, if we go to even the further nefarious side of this, uh, they could say, okay, great, you signed up for free, here's the file, download it and that is a virus.

Rekka (09:34):

Yup.

Kaelyn (09:35):

Um, or that is some kind of, uh, key tracker or encryption breaker that is now going to take all of the information that it could possibly get from you.

Rekka (09:45):

I mean, I think it's a pretty reasonable piece of advice that if you're going to a website that is doing things that are unlawful, maybe don't trust downloads from that website. I mean, that's just me. Yeah.

Kaelyn (09:57):

That, um, that seems pretty sensible. Look at it this way. There is nobody out there who is going, you know what I really want to do? I want to give books away for free. I'm going to set up a website that is totally legit, completely above board where I'm going to steal people's books and put them on here so other people can read them. So the first that I'm going to set up a legit, totally above board website that steals books.

Rekka (10:14):

First of all, those two things don't happen in the same vacuum.

Kaelyn (10:23):

Yes, yes. And also some of you are going, wait a second, this sounds familiar. Yes, you're correct. That is called a library.

Rekka (10:32):

Yes. If you cannot afford to buy the book, go to the library instead. Here's a really, really, really, really cool fact. Libraries pay for the books that they buy. Yes, they do not return books, which is excellent for the author and the publisher also. Um, they have them in digital print and audio have available. So you can get the book in whatever format you want for free and you are actually supporting the author. Like if you, if you say, look, I really love this author. I read everything by them. I, you know, I hope they do well. I just can't afford books. Library. Please go to the library. Authors love it when they find out their books are in libraries and the library, if a book is popular, we'll buy multiple copies. Yup. It's amazing. It's almost like this is the way it was designed to work. Almost like the, I suppose the idea the whole time. Yeah. Oh yeah. So that is, that is the a hundred percent best alternative. If you meet a free book, absolutely. We support that. Go get it from the library please.

Kaelyn (11:32):

Yes. So all of them, uh, you know, just common sense. Should it imply here that any thing you're going to, to get something illegal could have some sketchy elements to it. And don't get me wrong, this is illegal. You are not, this is not something, you know, we're don't talking about books here that, um, you know, are part of the, uh, the common domain at this point.

Rekka (11:54):

But Kaelyn, information wants to be free.

Kaelyn (11:58):

This isn't information.

Rekka (11:59):

Right. This is IP. This is someone's property.

Kaelyn (12:02):

Yes. This is intellectual property. And you could say, I mean, now granted, you know, we both work in genre fiction. I'm talking, you know, we're not just talking about novels and uh, and fiction books. Um, you could say, well, somebody wrote this great book about how to, you know, build your own computer and I want to do that. Well, here's the thing. Somebody wrote that book and they did it for a reason. They put a lot of time and effort into it and the, there's no, you're not entitled to that person's knowledge and ability.

Rekka (12:33):

I mean, folks already complained that, you know, ebook prices cost so much and print book prices costs so much, but the fact is that it's still lower than the rate that they would give that book away if it was only being given away once. Like if an author wants to make a livable wage, they need all of the sales of the book at that price because the author doesn't even get a, you know, chunk of that. They get a sliver.

Kaelyn (13:00):

Well, and I'll take that a step further if you want to. You know, if you think the cost of a how-to book is too high, go take a class, see how much that costs. Hire somebody to come do it for you and see how much that costs.

Rekka (13:13):

Or buy a pre-made.

Kaelyn (13:15):

Yeah. These are people's skills and knowledge and intellect and time and time. They've worked hard to build and cultivate these things. This is a product the same way a farmer selling apples is selling a product, right? Um, so a lot of those lines up there is a very good chance that if you ever publish something, it is going to end up on a pirated website. And we at Parvus, I've had this happen a couple of times. The first time it happened we were almost a little happy. We were like, wow, we've made it on the map. Somebody actually stolen one of our books. Um, and then we were like, Oh crap, we better deal with that. So your book has shown up on a part at website. What do you do now? I am going to qualify this entire spiel of what is to come here. By saying that depending on aware the website is hosted in the world, I mean not just like, you know, what shady part of the internet.

Rekka (14:14):

Okay.

Kaelyn (14:15):

There may be very little you can do.

Rekka (14:19):

Right. Um, however, we are fortunate that a lot of, uh, cloud based servers and such are, are being used for hosting now and many of these are owned by corporations that will honor a take down request.

Kaelyn (14:32):

Yes. Now I'm going to use China as an example here because, uh, I then a cursory examination of this will show you that a lot of this comes up in China because, um, trade agreements and IP agreements and there's a lot of problems with China in general. Um, uh, reproducing. Yes. Things, let's call it that.

Rekka (14:56):

And I've run into this in the manufacturing world too.

Kaelyn (14:58):

Yes. Well that's what I was saying. Even in the manufacturing world, there is a lot of problems with dealing with things being stolen and remade in China and having no course to address this because China is not party to a lot of the international agreements that would give you recourse to address this.

Rekka (15:19):

Yup.

Kaelyn (15:20):

Um, okay, so that said, you find, you know, your book has shown up on an elicit website. The first thing that you can do is contact the website directly and just tell them, Hey, you've got this thing on here, this is mine. You've stolen it. Um, you know, if you're through a publisher, the publisher, you know, we've had to do this at our best, um, and demand, do they take it down? Okay. So then you're wrong. Well, how on earth do I, how do I do that? If a, you know, a lot of these, these kinds of websites aren't going to have the click here to contact us.

Kaelyn (15:58):

But, uh, so there's a great website out there called whois.com. Um, and what this is what this website is. It is just information about websites online and you can put in a website address and it's going to give you all of the information that it can about this particular website. Uh, the hosted platform, the domain, the registrar, everything. So the first thing you can do is go in and find the email address associated with the master account for the website and email them directly. Now who is, does do a thing where you can pay them to have that information, uh, privately blocked. And the reason for this is, you know, let's say like you've got a website and you don't want people to just be able to go find your email address in plastered everywhere. So it's gonna say something like privacy@gmail.com or privacy with some numbers at gmail.com. You can still email that what the address and it just redirects to the actual email address. The idea is just that you can't see it,

Rekka (17:06):

Right. So if you were trying to, um, you know, as an individual mask, as much of your private information as you can, when you register your domain name, it's cheaper to pay for a domain name privacy than it is to like register a PO box and have an address that isn't your home address and you know, that sort of thing. So yeah, this is a totally legit use of, um, privacy

Kaelyn (17:31):

I'd go so far as to recommend it setting up a, um, you know, an author website or something. It's probably not a bad thing to have. Um, okay. So, you know, people are probably at home scoffing going like, yeah, like they're gonna listen to that. Um, here's the thing. If what you're doing at that point is you're not really threatening them with legal action or you're not threatening them with the fact that they're giving away your book, you're threatening them with their website, you're threatening a business, a line of income at that point. Um, because, and the success rates here, you know, of course vary wildly, but one of the things you're doing is threatening their line of business. And how much of a response are you going to get for this? No way to know it. And again, a big part of this could depend on where this person is physically located in the world.

Rekka (18:30):

Yup. And if they're smart enough to make sure their host is also physically located there, um, you know, sometimes you're going to find these eBooks on legitimate bookstores. Like, um, people have found that their Kindle unlimited books show up in Apple books because someone has copied it and listed it for sale because they know that being a Kindle unlimited book, that authors not watching that book on Apple and then usually they find out because Kindle unlimited got mad at them and Amazon sent them a nasty note about it. So, um, when it's a legitimate ebook store, you're going to have a much easier time. But, but it's the pirating sites we're concerned about.

Kaelyn (19:08):

Yeah. Most of these are not legitimate sites. Um, so, all right, let's say you have not gotten a response back. You've threatened, you know, like whatever you need to throw in an order, you feel to get their attention. If they don't respond, the next step up now is to contact their hosting service. Now, as record said, a lot of places are cloud based. Now there's a lot of people who use hosting through Amazon or Google or any number of hosting platforms. Um, getting in touch with the hosting platform is going to have varying degrees of success. Um, part of it is that if they are using one of the larger hosting services, it's gonna probably take a while for someone to get around to looking at this. Um, conversely, if they have their own hosting set up, if this is a server that they've got set up, you know, in the back room at their house, and this is a 100% real thing that can happen. I mean, this is not hard to do at all. It's not expensive to go online, buy the necessary equipment and get it set up. It does not require a lot of overhead. It does not require a ton of power and you can keep a lot on those servers, especially when you're doing some, when you're talking about something like books, which are primarily text-based files.

Rekka (20:29):

Yep. A couple of megabytes each at the most

Kaelyn (20:30):

Maybe, if that.

Rekka (20:31):

Yeah. With pictures.

Kaelyn (20:33):

Yeah. With some pictures assuming that they have pictures because some of these, you know,

Rekka (20:37):

They'd probably strip a mountain, just deposit the text.

Kaelyn (20:39):

Yeah. This is where, you know, something else you would notice on a pirate sites is a lot of this is just a dump of plain, barely formatted into a document for you to download.

Rekka (20:50):

Yup.

Kaelyn (20:51):

Um, so if they are hosted through a major service or a cloud based service, you have some chance of getting some attention and some action there. Um, again, it could take a while and even then, depending on what it is, the hosted service may be somewhat limited in what it can do. So if that fails, the next question is, okay, what can I do after that? This is when you go to the registrar and you, um, Oh, registrar is a service that allows you to officially register your domain name. And these are, these services are actually regulated. Um, they're regulated by the internet corporation have assigned names and numbers and that is a long fancy way of saying that these are the people that give out IP addresses.

Kaelyn (21:47):

Um, these are the ones that when you know, for instance, when we went to get our website set up for, uh, this podcast, uh, WB cast.com we went through GoDaddy. GoDaddy is the registrar here. Um, they are regulated by an overseen by ICANN. This uh, internet corporation have assigned names and numbers, um, who oversees a lot of different registrars and make sure that they're keeping things above board and collecting all the right paperwork from the people who register and all that stuff and collecting the taxes. Exactly. The taxes and the fees are the real law. That's the good part there. Uh, now like you probably have heard about like, Oh, a is this domain name taken? You know how much you pay for these? The registrars are the ones that, um, like in the case of GoDaddy, they're notorious for buying, uh, domains and it's sitting on them and reselling them and uh, you know, that that's a legitimate thing you can do.

Rekka (22:50):

That's their business model. Yep.

Kaelyn (22:52):

Yeah. The next step up is to contact this registrar, um, and complained to them directly. In some cases you can call them and say, Hey, look at, you know, this, and if you're wondering again, how do I get this information and the hosted information for that matter, again, on who's who is.com, we'll have all of this in that search result. What you'd need to do at this point is to threaten or to actually file what's called a D M C a request the digital millennium copyright act. And what this is supposed to be doing is exactly what it sounds like. Something is violating my copyright of my book. This at this point is supposed to be a last resort and you need to that in any correspondence or conversations with the registrar at this point that you have tried everything else and you've exhausted all of your options.

Kaelyn (23:56):

You're now to the point that you have to go to the registrar to complain about this. Um, if you're to the point where you have to do this, you can find templates online suggesting you know, how to format this, what information to give them. And um, you know, how to direct this and who to direct it to. Um, Scribd has a good template for this. So there is one final, last step. It's not the same as actually getting this stuff scrubbed, but that has to go directly to the search engines to go to Google and to get them to do list. The search results. Do you list the search results? It's not making it. So the book is taken down, but it is making it so it is either harder or impossible to find. Right? So those are the stepwise parts here. Um,

Rekka (24:51):

And we'll link in the show notes. There's a really good article on the digital reader that covers a lot of this. And so we'll put those links in the show notes. We got a bunch of links for this episode. I'm just talking about the effect of piracy, the costs of piracy, that sort of thing. And um, and the, these are step-by-step you can follow along, um, in the digital reader's article, which is, which is really good. So, um, you know, you don't have to keep rewinding and writing down what she said, but, um, we always have transcripts too, but um, yeah, so it's, it's long, it's involved, but um, is it worth your time?

Kaelyn (25:29):

Well, you decide. Um, again, I will, I really want to emphasize that this is not an easy process. Even if the person is, let's say you're in America and this, uh, website is also hosted in America. It's still not an easy process to deal with all of this.

Rekka (25:48):

You got a D cross all your T's and dot all your I's to even get your email acknowledged.

Kaelyn (25:53):

Yeah. Now there, there used to be a service called Blasty. Do you remember Blasty, Rekka?

Rekka (25:59):

I've never heard of it.

Kaelyn (26:00):

Blasty was, um, it was, uh, I guess technically like a software bundle that you'd pay for and you'd put all the relevant information in and then it would basically do all of those steps for you.

Rekka (26:13):

Mmmhmm.

Kaelyn (26:14):

Uh, blasty does not exist anymore, unfortunately. Uh, they in last year had some very strange stuff happen with them. I still don't entirely understand. There was all of a sudden accusations of corruption and, uh, illicit payments being made and various things and then they just kind of disappeared. Their website is even gone. Um, which is a shame because it was kind of a good way to handle this if you were willing to pay for the service. Um -

Rekka (26:41):

Well there are services that will still handle sending your DMC notices.

Kaelyn (26:46):

Yes.

Rekka (26:46):

Um, they're going to be expensive, but it's because it's so tedious and because you have to stay on top of these things to make sure it actually gets handled. So, you know, if you're getting to the point where you really feel that the book sales that the piracy is costing, you are worth paying for a service to handle this. Um, which is not going to be until people know who you are to be looking for you anyway. Because what happens is these pirate sites, they pirate your books because they know that people are searching for your name and your title.

Kaelyn (27:16):

Yes. But in some cases, um, it's a, it's a volume game with them. Uh, they're gonna throw as many books as they can get their hands on onto one of these sites. Um, the, again, just if you're ever considering looking at or going to one of these websites, first of all, don't, but second, think about the people sitting on the other side of this. They are not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. Yes. Um,

Rekka (27:47):

they're not doing it because due to unforeseen circumstances, they could not complete their library degree.

Kaelyn (27:52):

Yeah. They're actually, what did that be? Something.

Rekka (27:57):

These are all rogue library scientists that just couldn't finish. And -

Kaelyn (28:01):

I was unfairly kicked out of life, my librarian program for giving away too many books.

Rekka (28:07):

I gave away too many books if they didn't like it.

Kaelyn (28:09):

So now I'm on the other side of the law. I will never stop, be stopped from giving away books. Um, there was a story. Um, but the people who are doing this are not doing it because they are rogue librarians out there giving away books and stories and information because they love to, they have ulterior and often to furious motives at best. They either want you to want to get your email and information or they want you to click on pages so they can make money from the website. That is the best case scenario

Rekka (28:47):

Yeah, that that's the least harmful case. Yes, it gets worse from there.

Kaelyn (28:51):

It gets worse. And I mean, viruses, identity theft, they are absolutely selling your information. Don't delude yourself into thinking they're not. So stay away from these websites for a lot of reasons. One -

Rekka (29:07):

Because you're a good person and you want to support authors and publishers

Kaelyn (29:11):

Yeah, because they suck and the people that run them suck. And you should not be stealing people's work and putting it out there for the world without them being properly compensated for it. If you want books and you cannot afford them request them from your library also, there's this great thing you can do with a Kindle and eBooks. You can share them.

Rekka (29:31):

Yup. Some of them to front some of them.

Kaelyn (29:33):

Yes. But like sometimes you can, you can loan them to friends. Um, there are other ways of getting these that are not jeopardizing not only the writer's livelihood, but also their ability to produce and create in the future.

Rekka (29:50):

Yep. And I will say for, you know, there are areas where it might be like distant from a good library or something. All you need is a membership to a library. And usually the only thing you need for membership to library is to be a resident of the same state. So if you can sign up for a library in your state, even if you can't walk in because it's not that close, once you have that membership, you can take it to I think, Libby or overdrive. And um, that's how you get the eBooks. And I mean, your library might have their own service, but basically it's usually Libby or Overdrive and then you can search under, you know, quote unquote under your library for the books you want. But it's coming from a large pool of books that are out there. And sometimes they're all checked out because that's how libraries work. But you can just get in line for that book and you can read it and when it comes available. Yep.

Kaelyn (30:39):

So that's, uh, that's kind of the, the story with pirates. Um, unfortunately they are not all ambling around doing bad Keith Richards impressions wearing a lot of very heavy eyeliner. I hey, don't get me wrong. I enjoy it. I enjoy it.

Rekka (30:59):

Um, yeah, I prefer the black sails. Uh, pirates these days, even though pirates of the Caribbean did inspire my novel trilogy. I will say that, uh, the black sails series, if you haven't watched that, go watch that. If you want, if you want to get involved with pirates, go watch that. Um, leave the pirate sites alone. Um, yeah, I will say, you know, you have some hope if you find your book on a legitimate site or a site with a legitimate host. Um, there has been some advice in the, and Kaelyn, you know, alluded to this at the very beginning of the episode, um, in the self publishing community that says, um, Hey, these were never your, uh, your readers anyway. Don't worry about it. Just be happy that your book is out there getting exposure. Um, I disagree with that. Um, I think self publishing authors are probably going to start disagreeing with that too now that it's getting more competitive and um, it's not quite the, you know, boom days that it used to be. So, um, I think it's worth your time to try and get them removed. Um, it's also legally a good thing to be doing to defend your copyrights. Yeah. Because if you don't defend your copyrights, then you know, the law sees, starts to see things differently than you might imagine they would.

Kaelyn (32:19):

There is, um, you know, the, and this is very subjective what I'm about to say. Uh, there is the case to be made that let's say down the line, you do actually end up in court over something, be it related to this or not. And the question comes up, well, you saw that people were this stuff before, didn't you? Well, why, why is it bothering you now? Why didn't it bother you then? Right now that said, this is a very time consuming and often mentally draining process. Um, so the, it is completely understandable to throw your hands up in the air and say, I just don't want to deal with this right now.

Rekka (33:01):

So you might be wondering, Oh my God, is my book already out on pirate sites and Oh my God, do I have to spend every morning crawling pirate sites in order to see if my book has popped up? Because what will happen is if you have a like peer-to-peer piracy site, they might take it down one day and then five minutes later or the next day or a week later, it's back up. So how do you know, um, some of them are behind a paywall, like we mentioned some of these pirate sites or subscriptions. So the only way to know what's in their data bank is unless they make the DataBank public, but you can't download unless you logged in. Um, the only way to know it would be to pay and it's, you're not going to do that. You don't want to support that. Um, but what I do, and I know Parvus does for their authors is set up a Google search term alert. So just put your author name in and your titles of your books and then you get an email.

Kaelyn (33:51):

We keep the Google search term alerts for numerous reasons. Basically, you know, we -

Rekka (33:56):

And sometimes that's how you find up the find out that a review is posted. You know,

Kaelyn (34:01):

you know, if Rekka's name suddenly starts popping up in conjunction with, um, you know, things like police arrested,

Rekka (34:08):

Hey, now she's not a lot of faith in me. I just learned this is a, um, this is a moment, hang on, I gotta I gotta recover from this.

Kaelyn (34:19):

It's okay. They have a Google news alert set up for me too. I'm really the one that they're waiting for -

Rekka (34:22):

Yeah, you're the one that's going to get in trouble first.

Kaelyn (34:25):

It's associated with a terms like "bizarre incident" and "neighbors say"

Rekka (34:30):

And explicable.

Kaelyn (34:33):

Yeah, no, of all of the people associated with Parvus, I am far and away the one most likely to end up on the news.

Rekka (34:39):

Yeah.

Kaelyn (34:43):

The New York post.

Rekka (34:45):

But anyway, yeah, but so what I'm saying is, is set a Google search similar and forget it, you know, move on. And what's going to happen is you are going to get notifications of things like reviews and it's just as a quick aside, if it's a negative review, that doesn't mean you have to respond to it just because it came to your inbox through a Google search alert. You're just going to leave that -

Kaelyn (35:06):

Go back and listen to the reviews episode.

Rekka (35:08):

Don't do it. Just don't do that. But yeah, so that's a possibility with um, with those search term alerts. But they are good for helping you learn when someone has listed your book. Um, because pretty much that's the only way I learned since I'm not going to be found on a pirate site, even though I love pirates, but just not that kind. You were on a pirate site, huh? Thought some was on a pirate site. Yeah. Yeah. But I found out through the Google search term cause I wasn't good. No, I meant I personally, my personal habit not to spend any time downloading from pirate sites. Yes.

Kaelyn (35:41):

I was going to say flotsam was absolutely on a pirate site. That was one of our first real, uh, I was the one. You were the first one we found and then we found Vick's and, we, and we were like, I wonder what else is on here? Oh shit. Everything. And that's, you know, that's the thing is that so many books end up on these things. There are people whose jobs are only two. They just, this is their lives. They just scour websites, scrape the internet, try to come up with this stuff. I've put it on a website

Rekka (36:14):

Do you think when they were young and someone asks them what they want to be when they grow up, they thought I'm going to be part of the book protectorate.

Kaelyn (36:21):

Pirate.

Rekka (36:23):

Pirate?

Kaelyn (36:23):

No. What? They said -

Rekka (36:25):

They probably said pirate and now instead that they're they're calling and defense. No, I'm saying the person whose job it is, this is their career. Their paid position is to go in and send, take down notices.

Kaelyn (36:37):

I like, I like that. I always should get them a badge. Official book protector.

Rekka (36:42):

Yes. Member of the protector. It, yes. I like it. Yes. Um, okay. So uh, I think that

Rekka (36:50):

Hopefully that answers the question. I mean what do you do to prevent it? You don't, yeah, there's really nothing you can do because the Stephen King books are there. Like you can't be big enough to be too big for this. You can't be small enough to be too small for this.

Kaelyn (37:04):

No such thing as the size of an audience or the size of a publisher that is going to prevent this from happening. Right. So, um, uh, I think we mentioned it earlier, uh, Jason Kimball had, uh, sent us that question, so, you know, thanks Jason. We always like questions and answering them on this show. Um, if you have any questions that you'd like to send us,

Rekka (37:27):

You can send them to us @WMBcast on Twitter or Instagram through the DMS there. You can send a emailed questions to info@wmbcast and you can find us also on patreon.com/wmbcast and all of our back episodes are at wmbcast.com and we'd love to hear from you, even if you don't have a specific question or you just want to react to the episode or start up a chat with us, you can do that on Twitter. Probably is the best bot. And, um, if you do not want to engage with us, but you want to shout about us to the world, you can always share our, um, our episodes with a friend who might find them useful. And you could especially please leave a review or rating, especially a review on Apple podcasts. We love reviews, so that would be super helpful and help other people find us and love our show as much as you do. So thanks again for listening and we really appreciate you and we hope your books never show up on pirate sites.

 

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